Germany’s new national security strategy – Groundbreaking or status quo?

July 02, 2023

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and his cabinet recently unveiled their country’s long-awaited national security strategy, the first since World War II. Co-hosts Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson and Rachel Tausendfreund explore whether this strategy is groundbreaking as its proponents claim and the impact on Germany’s allies and enemies. This week’s guests are Michal Baranowski, senior fellow and managing director of the German Marshall Fund East, based in Warsaw, and Gesine Weber, a fellow with the German Marshall Fund’s geostrategy team in Paris.

This episode was produced by Dina Elsayed.


Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. From the way the pandemic is shaping geopolitics; to the dark side of tech for democracy; to the political movements, elections and uprisings changing global governance; the podcast brings together international experts from inside and outside of GMF to help us understand our disordered world.